New EU online selling regulations June 2014

[TheFlo]

I'm just reading about these new EU online selling regulations.

Errrk - more work to do then.

Here's a link to the Etsy blog post about it (hope its OK Emma to link to this Etsy post - it's quite reader friendly unlike the EU site!) https://blog.etsy.com/uk/2014/06/12/what-etsy-sellers-should-know-about-the-european-unions-new-online-selling-regulations/

Here's the link to the European Commission site: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-marketing/rights-contracts/directive/index_en.htm

Has anyone started making the changes? The most concerning to me is that we now have to give our address to buyers before they buy - how do we do that without publishing our address online? The Etsy blog post states that there is a slot to do this but I'm guessing that this won't yet apply for other online selling sites.

Jo

[shelleym]

I am trying to work out if I need to do anything for selling at craft fairs! I THINK it seems that if I am selling away from business premises (and unless it's a regular market it counts as away from business premises) the new regs apply for return of goods within 14 days if they decide to reject them - and a year if I don't tell them!!

Good grief!

Haven't even looked at what to change online yet!

Shelley

[ejralph]

Thanks for posting the links - I'll check those out later

I think I am mostly done on the changes we need to make. Reading through the regs though, everything was a bit cobbled together I thought, and at times contradictory.

I suspect this will be another of those ones where even the trading standards offices won't ever be able to agree about the finer details.

Most of it is common sense and good business practice though.

Emma

[Carrie]

Also you have to point out that the buyer must pay return postage if the change their mind.

[ejralph]

Also you have to point out that the buyer must pay return postage if the change their mind.

This was the same in the old Distance Selling Regulations though.

Difference is now, I think, you have to make sure a returns form is available to the customer.

Emma

[Carrie]

Oh yes - l did read that but forgot straightaway
Pointed it all out to hubby for his sadly neglected website.

[shelleym]

Having gone through and been busy updating the website and also reading all the new regs I don't think it applies to 'craft fairs'. It is a little confusing and not very clear, but as I read it, if you regularly do fairs then your business premises is where your craft fair is and the distance regs don't apply. At least that's how I'm going to interpret it until further notice. Otherwise it seems for any purchase over £42 you have to provide all your business terms and conditions and returns policy and a detailed receipt itemising every item. Not easy or even possible in a busy fair.

The main change for online is 14 days instead of 7 for returning goods, provide the terms and conditions in a durable format (not downloadable - has to be sent so customer has a copy - but can be a sent letter or pdf), and have a returns form available. I think that's it!

Shelley

[ejralph]

It really is a confusing set of regulations - much more so than the old DSR

The whole "durable medium" of providing the terms and conditions is confusing. Some places it says these need to be personally addressed, others that the terms and conditions just need to be "made available"

I think the people writing this stuff don't really appreciate that most businesses cannot just edit their online store checkout flow to the degree they would need to to customise for every new nuance of change.

Generally though, if you apply good business practise anyway, these things shouldn't be an issue.

One thing I cannot work out yet - whether to include a returns form/terms and conditions letter with orders or if linking to the pdf where people can download or save their own copy is enough.

So, Shelley - where you say "pdf is fine" can you elaborate on where you found that out because it is the one aspect I am still confused over and haven't been able to go definitive?

I don't really want to have to take a step backwards, ecologically speaking, and print out a whole page of T&C for people - wasting paper and ink and them having to dispose of it when really anyone capable of ordering through an online store is capable of printing out their own copy of the pdf if they need to.

Emma

[shelleym]

I am not sure where I found it out. It's more my interpretation - or Dale's I think. Something I read somewhere said something along the lines that it has to be something that cannot be changed later by the seller. We have interpreted it that the seller can't just send them to a link that the seller could change at a later date, that they have to physically have a copy of the T&C (either in a durable medium like paper, or on their computer that they can print out). So we think you should be able to e-mail them a pdf file - that theoretically they can't change, and although we can later change our T&C, when their order was placed they have a copy of the T&C that where applicable at their time of ordering that we as sellers haven't changed. Something they can refer back to that they can keep (like they obviously will!) Either printed out with the order (like you say, ink and paper!) or sent in pdf. But not a link to something on the website. So I am trying to work out how to automatically send a pdf when an order is placed. I don't get that many orders, so I may just e-mail it individually.

As for the returns form - I am still unclear about that as well. I am thinking of printing it at the bottom  of the invoice I send out with orders as well as incorporated within the pdf I will e-mail them.

I can see in a way why they have changed things, but it is so bleeeeppping confusing, and difficult to implement. As you say, if you have good business practice it shouldn't be a problem. Communication with the customer is the key, and if it's a bad business no amount of T&C will make any difference. (Mind you Dale is complaining at the moment about a customer who is e-mailing him in German and asking questions and he thinks is having difficulty with the software and is struggling with communication because he (Dale) doesn't speak German  and the customer doesn't speak English - communication is definitely the key!)

If you find anything else about the regs do say. If I am misinterpreting them and you can't send a pdf that's gonna be a pain!!

Shelley

[ejralph]

I'm having the same trouble wading through it Shelley.

there is also the part somewhere that says the terms and conditions have to be addressed personally to the customer. WTF?

It is just a very poorly organised peice of legislation - I have no problem with the standards it is setting, but some of them just are not practical.

Emma

[shelleym]

I wonder if emailing a pdf file when the email is addressed to the customer when they order would suffice! Confusing or what. I am personally not going to worry. I've had a peek online at T&C for fairly large bead suppliers in the UK and most don't have a detailed returns policy, and some still say they reserve the right to charge a fee (10 or 15%) for restocking if you return unwanted goods. I know that business to business transactions don't come under the new legislation, but most of the places I've looked at are serving the public.

I will do what I can - which is all that we can do - and hope what we are doing is correct. At least we are making an effort to comply.

Shelley

[ejralph]

This is my feeling too Shelley

Everything is there in my terms and conditions with links that people can use to download their own copy, that link also emailed to them when ordering. Plus people have to check that they have read and agree to the terms before the store will let them order.

The silly thing is, the good businesses out there don't need this type of red tape - we treat our customers well just because we know it is the right thing to do, not because we "have" to. But it is only the good types of business that will endeavour to ensure they meet the legislation each time anyway. The rip off merchants won't change a thing.

I too have seen some of the larger companies and their terms and conditions. I do a lot of eye-rolling at some of the suppliers out there at times!

Emma

[Karolina.S]

http://giphy.com/gifs/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O

[ejralph]

yup - that's the one! 

Emma

[Karolina.S]